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	<title>Comments on: Am I The Only One Thinking Adventure Games Should Be Using 2D?</title>
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	<link>http://www.gameproducer.net/2010/06/19/am-i-the-only-one-thinking-adventure-games-should-be-using-2d/</link>
	<description>I bake games. Indie style.</description>
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		<title>By: Juuso</title>
		<link>http://www.gameproducer.net/2010/06/19/am-i-the-only-one-thinking-adventure-games-should-be-using-2d/comment-page-1/#comment-140962</link>
		<dc:creator>Juuso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 19:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=4716#comment-140962</guid>
		<description>Day of the Tentacle... Maniac Mansion, that was superb. I think I managed to solve that game without walkthroughs. I might want to play this game again.

Hmm, adding one more in the mix: Full Throttle. I absolutely loved that game. Some blamed it to be &quot;too short&quot; and &quot;too easy&quot;, but frankly... I loved it. The main character had attitude and solving puzzles didn&#039;t cause gray hairs or anything... so it was fun. Get it if you can find it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Day of the Tentacle&#8230; Maniac Mansion, that was superb. I think I managed to solve that game without walkthroughs. I might want to play this game again.</p>
<p>Hmm, adding one more in the mix: Full Throttle. I absolutely loved that game. Some blamed it to be &#8220;too short&#8221; and &#8220;too easy&#8221;, but frankly&#8230; I loved it. The main character had attitude and solving puzzles didn&#8217;t cause gray hairs or anything&#8230; so it was fun. Get it if you can find it.</p>
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		<title>By: ZeHa</title>
		<link>http://www.gameproducer.net/2010/06/19/am-i-the-only-one-thinking-adventure-games-should-be-using-2d/comment-page-1/#comment-140961</link>
		<dc:creator>ZeHa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 19:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=4716#comment-140961</guid>
		<description>Yes, Broken Sword is a must, I played 1+2 and I think they&#039;re both great games. But my absolute favorite will always be Day Of The Tentacle :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Broken Sword is a must, I played 1+2 and I think they&#8217;re both great games. But my absolute favorite will always be Day Of The Tentacle :)</p>
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		<title>By: Juuso</title>
		<link>http://www.gameproducer.net/2010/06/19/am-i-the-only-one-thinking-adventure-games-should-be-using-2d/comment-page-1/#comment-140955</link>
		<dc:creator>Juuso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 10:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=4716#comment-140955</guid>
		<description>Yeh, Gabriel Knight 1 is excellent (bloody difficult, and there&#039;s one place where you can get stuck if you don&#039;t know what to do - If I remember correctly, it&#039;s some police station part). Very spookie experience. Totally recommend.

GK 2 I bought, and it&#039;s those &quot;recorded real life actors&quot; stuff, but I really liked it back then. It was also easier, but very nice in my opinion. I know a bit of German language, so it was cool to put some of that in use as well.

GOG indeed is great, and I totally support them (voting with your wallet works...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeh, Gabriel Knight 1 is excellent (bloody difficult, and there&#8217;s one place where you can get stuck if you don&#8217;t know what to do &#8211; If I remember correctly, it&#8217;s some police station part). Very spookie experience. Totally recommend.</p>
<p>GK 2 I bought, and it&#8217;s those &#8220;recorded real life actors&#8221; stuff, but I really liked it back then. It was also easier, but very nice in my opinion. I know a bit of German language, so it was cool to put some of that in use as well.</p>
<p>GOG indeed is great, and I totally support them (voting with your wallet works&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Leroy 'The 1nteger' Frederick</title>
		<link>http://www.gameproducer.net/2010/06/19/am-i-the-only-one-thinking-adventure-games-should-be-using-2d/comment-page-1/#comment-140954</link>
		<dc:creator>Leroy 'The 1nteger' Frederick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 09:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=4716#comment-140954</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I&#039;ve got to check out Gabriel Knight, as for Broken Sword 2, don&#039;t feel shy to use a walk-through / FAQ on the places you get stuck, I find that happens with almost every adventure game. :)

Gotta love GOG, I hope their making a good living from such a great niche business idea and great execution!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I&#8217;ve got to check out Gabriel Knight, as for Broken Sword 2, don&#8217;t feel shy to use a walk-through / FAQ on the places you get stuck, I find that happens with almost every adventure game. :)</p>
<p>Gotta love GOG, I hope their making a good living from such a great niche business idea and great execution!</p>
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		<title>By: Juuso</title>
		<link>http://www.gameproducer.net/2010/06/19/am-i-the-only-one-thinking-adventure-games-should-be-using-2d/comment-page-1/#comment-140943</link>
		<dc:creator>Juuso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 16:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=4716#comment-140943</guid>
		<description>Runaway: (I remember reading about this game, wanting to play it but some reason never did)
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/runaway_a_road_adventure

Broken Sword 2 (I think I played this a bit, got stuck... and eventually stopped. :))
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/broken_sword_2__the_smoking_mirror

I have to add also Gabriel Knights (pre-3d ;) those were simply great experience. Tough as hell, but with walkthrough guide &amp; patience they were great stuff:
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/gabriel_knight_2_the_beast_within
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/gabriel_knight_sins_of_the_fathers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Runaway: (I remember reading about this game, wanting to play it but some reason never did)<br />
<a href="http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/runaway_a_road_adventure" rel="nofollow">http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/runaway_a_road_adventure</a></p>
<p>Broken Sword 2 (I think I played this a bit, got stuck&#8230; and eventually stopped. :))<br />
<a href="http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/broken_sword_2__the_smoking_mirror" rel="nofollow">http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/broken_sword_2__the_smoking_mirror</a></p>
<p>I have to add also Gabriel Knights (pre-3d ;) those were simply great experience. Tough as hell, but with walkthrough guide &#038; patience they were great stuff:<br />
<a href="http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/gabriel_knight_2_the_beast_within" rel="nofollow">http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/gabriel_knight_2_the_beast_within</a><br />
<a href="http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/gabriel_knight_sins_of_the_fathers" rel="nofollow">http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/gabriel_knight_sins_of_the_fathers</a></p>
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		<title>By: Leroy 'The 1nteger' Frederick</title>
		<link>http://www.gameproducer.net/2010/06/19/am-i-the-only-one-thinking-adventure-games-should-be-using-2d/comment-page-1/#comment-140939</link>
		<dc:creator>Leroy 'The 1nteger' Frederick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=4716#comment-140939</guid>
		<description>I think Keith&#039;s probably right, so I stand corrected, assume that the list I gave is non-hand drawn as opposed to actual realtime 3d.

@Juuso You&#039;ll love Broken Sword pre-3d, not sure you&#039;ll like it as much afterwards.

I&#039;d also recommend Runaway for a modern example of a new game in the classic handrawn art style. (It&#039;s an experience, just wait to you meet Lulu and the girl-boys, oh boy)!

I guess point &#039;n&#039; click adventure games aren&#039;t dying, but handrawn point &#039;n&#039; click adventure games, those may be more a rare species these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Keith&#8217;s probably right, so I stand corrected, assume that the list I gave is non-hand drawn as opposed to actual realtime 3d.</p>
<p>@Juuso You&#8217;ll love Broken Sword pre-3d, not sure you&#8217;ll like it as much afterwards.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also recommend Runaway for a modern example of a new game in the classic handrawn art style. (It&#8217;s an experience, just wait to you meet Lulu and the girl-boys, oh boy)!</p>
<p>I guess point &#8216;n&#8217; click adventure games aren&#8217;t dying, but handrawn point &#8216;n&#8217; click adventure games, those may be more a rare species these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Juuso</title>
		<link>http://www.gameproducer.net/2010/06/19/am-i-the-only-one-thinking-adventure-games-should-be-using-2d/comment-page-1/#comment-140933</link>
		<dc:creator>Juuso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 03:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=4716#comment-140933</guid>
		<description>@ZeHa: eh... I said that in the most positive way. Heavy Rain does it properly. It&#039;s sort of better than games or movies ;)

@Keith: your comment make me thinking that perhaps 3D in adventure games has the issue of camera/controls: it&#039;s so easy to make them bad. Maybe that&#039;s what bothering me in 3D adventure games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ZeHa: eh&#8230; I said that in the most positive way. Heavy Rain does it properly. It&#8217;s sort of better than games or movies ;)</p>
<p>@Keith: your comment make me thinking that perhaps 3D in adventure games has the issue of camera/controls: it&#8217;s so easy to make them bad. Maybe that&#8217;s what bothering me in 3D adventure games.</p>
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		<title>By: ZeHa</title>
		<link>http://www.gameproducer.net/2010/06/19/am-i-the-only-one-thinking-adventure-games-should-be-using-2d/comment-page-1/#comment-140931</link>
		<dc:creator>ZeHa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=4716#comment-140931</guid>
		<description>quote: To me it’s some sort of – hmmm – “game movie”

to me, sadly, almost every modern game is some sort of game movie...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>quote: To me it’s some sort of – hmmm – “game movie”</p>
<p>to me, sadly, almost every modern game is some sort of game movie&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Weatherby II</title>
		<link>http://www.gameproducer.net/2010/06/19/am-i-the-only-one-thinking-adventure-games-should-be-using-2d/comment-page-1/#comment-140929</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Weatherby II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=4716#comment-140929</guid>
		<description>You might be confusing a 3d engine verses pre-generated 3d.  I believe Syberia uses a 2d engine, but it&#039;s sprites and environments are pre-rendered 3d.  The problem is they&#039;re not thinking of 3d in the sense of 2d.  They try to make these ultra-realistic graphics, rather than trying to make really nice looking graphics.  It&#039;s the difference between technicolor pre-50&#039;s and color now.  The old technicolor looks closer to a beautiful painting, rather than harsh realism.  Or it&#039;s like film-to-video, people like film because it looks nice, video is harsh, but more like we actually see.

As far as actual 3d engines are concerned Monkey Island 4 really was ruined by a bad control scheme, because they weren&#039;t really using the medium correctly.  While I prefer 2D to 3D in look, as far as whether it works or not is really a control issue not a look issue.  What you want is a third person perspective over somewhat static backgrounds.  If scrolling backgrounds are to be employed then you need to treat them like you would 2d, you build them up in 3D, and move a camera along them still at a third-person perspective.  It would still work correctly since adventure games were really meant to be in the third-person, not right in the action like a first-person shooter.  That said, you can even have a first-person adventure game (technically text-adventures are first-person, as the feedback is directly to you, as you are the one doing it).

Also you can get any visual style you want in 3D just as in 2D although maybe a bit different.  Personally I like 2D better because the art style is defined by the artist (or whoever is producing/directing/etc), whereas in 3D it&#039;s more defined by the technical aspects.  &quot;How many polygons can we get away with.  Can we use shaders?&quot; etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might be confusing a 3d engine verses pre-generated 3d.  I believe Syberia uses a 2d engine, but it&#8217;s sprites and environments are pre-rendered 3d.  The problem is they&#8217;re not thinking of 3d in the sense of 2d.  They try to make these ultra-realistic graphics, rather than trying to make really nice looking graphics.  It&#8217;s the difference between technicolor pre-50&#8242;s and color now.  The old technicolor looks closer to a beautiful painting, rather than harsh realism.  Or it&#8217;s like film-to-video, people like film because it looks nice, video is harsh, but more like we actually see.</p>
<p>As far as actual 3d engines are concerned Monkey Island 4 really was ruined by a bad control scheme, because they weren&#8217;t really using the medium correctly.  While I prefer 2D to 3D in look, as far as whether it works or not is really a control issue not a look issue.  What you want is a third person perspective over somewhat static backgrounds.  If scrolling backgrounds are to be employed then you need to treat them like you would 2d, you build them up in 3D, and move a camera along them still at a third-person perspective.  It would still work correctly since adventure games were really meant to be in the third-person, not right in the action like a first-person shooter.  That said, you can even have a first-person adventure game (technically text-adventures are first-person, as the feedback is directly to you, as you are the one doing it).</p>
<p>Also you can get any visual style you want in 3D just as in 2D although maybe a bit different.  Personally I like 2D better because the art style is defined by the artist (or whoever is producing/directing/etc), whereas in 3D it&#8217;s more defined by the technical aspects.  &#8220;How many polygons can we get away with.  Can we use shaders?&#8221; etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Juuso</title>
		<link>http://www.gameproducer.net/2010/06/19/am-i-the-only-one-thinking-adventure-games-should-be-using-2d/comment-page-1/#comment-140924</link>
		<dc:creator>Juuso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gameproducer.net/?p=4716#comment-140924</guid>
		<description>@biovf: sorry, read badly :) got the point now (in these times, it makes a great excuse to say &quot;I&#039;m a Finnish&quot; - when in reality I just read it in too hastily ;))

Anyway. Perhaps my own thinking about &quot;adventure games&quot; is somewhat limited to point&#039;n&#039;click. In fact... my mind almost thinks that &quot;adventure = point&#039;n&#039;click&quot;. Certainly all these Alan Wake, Silent Hill, Penumbra (horror games all by the way) stretch the limits of genre definition. Same goes for Heavy Rain which is almost like a movie feeling in that game.

@Leroy: Perhaps I&#039;m also hating the Guybrush art. It can never compete with this:
&lt;img src=&#039;http://www.gameproducer.net/images/160.jpg&#039;/&gt;

Broken Sword... I wanted to play that as a kid. Perhaps I&#039;ll need to check gog.com for those games.

Is Syberia 3d? It does a fine job hiding it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@biovf: sorry, read badly :) got the point now (in these times, it makes a great excuse to say &#8220;I&#8217;m a Finnish&#8221; &#8211; when in reality I just read it in too hastily ;))</p>
<p>Anyway. Perhaps my own thinking about &#8220;adventure games&#8221; is somewhat limited to point&#8217;n'click. In fact&#8230; my mind almost thinks that &#8220;adventure = point&#8217;n'click&#8221;. Certainly all these Alan Wake, Silent Hill, Penumbra (horror games all by the way) stretch the limits of genre definition. Same goes for Heavy Rain which is almost like a movie feeling in that game.</p>
<p>@Leroy: Perhaps I&#8217;m also hating the Guybrush art. It can never compete with this:<br />
<img src='http://www.gameproducer.net/images/160.jpg'/></p>
<p>Broken Sword&#8230; I wanted to play that as a kid. Perhaps I&#8217;ll need to check gog.com for those games.</p>
<p>Is Syberia 3d? It does a fine job hiding it&#8230;</p>
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